INTRODUCTION

Census of Hallucinations is the epitome of 'attitude' and musical esotericism- they have and express (No mincing of words here) opinions on all aspects of human (and sometimes alien) life, a veritable cornucopia of political, social, economic and spiritual commentary and documentary. Such is the diversity of musical delivery that it all can all sound quite incongruous in places and yet, despite the apparent musical 'Pandora's box' that opens, it all seems to make sense in the end and you can't help but feel that the planet would be a better place if more good people like Tim Jones and Terri-B, the band's 'creative whirlwinds' populated it.
Census of Hallucinations will employ just about any musical medium to get their message across- ska/ reggae ('Where?' from 2002 release 'The Sixth Sense' is currently playing on 'Aural Innovations' internet radio), jazz ('Nozy Parker' on 'The Sixth Sense'), soul (Listen to the rhythm section and Terri's backing vocals on 'The Judas Kiss' on 'The 4th Dimension' for example), folk (Protest songs- if I can resurrect that term- like 'Ignorance Insane' on '5', a political statement with a Dylan feel) , rock, even rave on 'Give Us Back Our Heaven', a very significant 1 minute and 40 seconds as a plea goes out to the master builders (?) to come back and save us for there's 'madness and hell here on Earth'.
Nor are the band afraid to use conventional song structures or 'foot tappers' (and they turn some darned memorable songs as Jerry Kranitz of Aural Innovations internet radio, a fan of the group, is at pains to point out) Love ballads are also quite acceptable- like the exceedingly tender 'Know This'. Is this the same Tim who rants and rave on tracks like Bloody Fucking Wanker', a 'toxic spill' of anger repeated to a 'na-na-na-na-na' playground taunt on 2001's 'The 4th Dimension'.
A final endearing quality of Census of Hallucinations is their proclivity to turn the clock back to our psychedelic past. It is no accident that they chose to cover Status Quo's 'In My Chair' on this year's 'Sixth Sense' album
In fact there is always something to grab your ears on Census of Hallucination records. And the eye catching sleeve designs aren't bad either (All done 'in house' at Stone Premonitions I gather.)

Let's take the band's two 2001 releases to give those unfamiliar with the band' music an idea of what Census of Hallucinations are about. '4th Dimension' uses shorter songs with a good sprinkling of sampling, effects and programming, Tim's accomplished guitar playing and Terry's harmony vocals are, as always, essential to the band's full sound. There is also a real (and very good) drummer in Dave Pipkin and bass player (Rabbit) as well as a keyboard player, Steve Ellis who also works with Kromlek. (More on the various musicians who have worked as part of or with Census of Hallucinations later) A few months later '5' appeared. While 'The 4th Dimension' was a song based 'pot pourri' interspersed with narrative, '5' is 'the guitar album'. Although this is the 'heaviest' C of H album to date it also features one of the most beautiful and atmospheric songs in the band's considerable catalogue, 'Father's Day'. Of the six Census of Hallucinations releases to date if I personally had to recommend one to start with it would probably be the eponymous CD of 2000 then either 'The 4th Dimension' or '5' depending on what 'style' you prefer. I'm sure if you wanted to buy two or three the nice people at Stone Premonitions wouldn't be difficult to deal with!

(Tim did the 'talking' but Terri contributed her thoughts as well so most of the responses to the questions are marked 'Tim and Terri'.)

THE INTERVIEW

Phil: Let's start at the beginning (Sorry, a cliché already!) How did you get involved in music in the first place?

Tim: From my own personal point of view, I was never any good at anything else. I left school and home when I was 16 to join a band with Paddi (musician and sound technician- ed.). We were signed to a record company from the age of eighteen and it just went on from there. We would survive on a meagre income from the music, then we wouldn't survive and have to get crap jobs, then another musical opportunity would come up and I'd make a living from music for maybe another year and then become unemployed and around and around it would go. Playing the guitar wasn't only a liberation for me, it saved my life. I was well fucked up as a kid and suddenly there was something I could do that brought me some kind of respect for myself. I gigged solid for about 20 odd years but in more recent times, I've got into the recording side of things and am now paying my dues for all of the studio engineers I drove up the wall in the past. Through music, you can reconnect with all kinds of feelings and emotions within yourself. It's a very rewarding experience. I love being consumed in creativity.

Phil: I'll start off looking at the music with the latest CD '6th Sense': I'm particularly interested in the architectural references in the title track- 'master builder', 'sacred geometry' and so forth. Would you care to elaborate on this?

Tim and Terri: In a sense it's all a bit esoteric but the references to things like Sacred Geometry and the Master Builder are certainly a key to understanding what we are trying to get at. It all depends on what you believe or what we are all led to believe by those in charge. The first thing to do is stick Sacred Geometry and Vesica Pisces into the Google search engine, for an outline of how fundamentally important these things are. There is loads of information on the net that anyone can now access and this is the real breakthrough and key to it all in the modern world. On the net, you can get information that you would find it difficult to locate in your local library because for centuries, this information has been kept hidden from the masses and was definitely not for general consumption. Unless they decide to seriously regulate the internet then the truth will out. Only certain mystery schools and secret societies were party to such information until modern times. It has been said that the best place to hide something is right in front of someone's eyes and it's true to say that the signs and symbols that the "powers that be" use for example in freemasonry are there in a lot of cases for everyone to see, it's just that people are unaware of their significance. People do not understand the signs and symbols. It's like there's been a secret language and a parallel history running alongside the official line and as we know, history is always written by the winners in any conflict. Also, in any conflict the rule is always finance both sides, so that you cannot possibly lose! We have to remember that "the truth is a lie which must be revealed". Why are there secret societies, if there are no secrets to keep and what gives one elite group the right to say that they know best for the whole of humanity? We all know where that leads.
You don't need to see, smell or touch something for it to exist. Science is really magic under a different guise and the mad magicians are in charge but they weren't always mad.
What are the pyramids on the Giza plateau and who is the Master Builder? Is he the "all seeing eye" on the dollar bill? Why are the pyramid and the "all seeing eye" on the dollar bill anyway? What does it mean? Does anybody care? Does this symbolise the designer of the total illusion that brought down the veil of deceit and blinkered the eyes to the soul of humanity? This is a big subject and an important one. It's almost as if just looking at the Great Pyramid of Cheops resonates with some frequency within all of us. These are gigantic structures, built for a reason, incorporating a total understanding of advanced mathematics, physics and geometry AND they were definitely built to last. What did the people who built them know? You often hear it said these days - "As above, so below" but what does it mean? "As within, so without" - What does it mean?
One theory is that the pyramids were rejuvenation chambers where the soul of the dead King or Queen could be transferred to a newborn infant at the point of the King or Queen's death. Lets say that way back then in the mists of time, the knowledge was there about the cycle of life and death and the elite few could reincarnate again and again into the same families (after all, do Buddhists not recognize the new Dalai Lama from birth? How do they know this?). Lets then say that over the centuries, these once caring and compassionate souls became corrupted by an extremely negative vibration but still kept reincarnating up to the present day. What would we end up with? What if malignant entities sussed the knowledge and usurped the benevolent King and Queen? In a universe of infinite possibilities and probabilities, anything is possible.

Phil: This is a subject that fascinates millions of people. Indeed I personally like to see connections between art, literature and philosophy in music which is why, I suppose, I detest much of the 'pap' you hear on the radio all the time. There was a book called 'The Orion Mystery' on the very subject of what the pyramids were used for and the theory of an alignment with the belt of Orion. A little robot was even sent up some of the shafts and the story made the front page of the 'quality papers' at the time. The authors say in their prologue, quote, "The Egyptians were an extremely reserved people, who hept the inner mysteries of their religion from all but a few chosen initiates." You mentioned reincarnation and Buddhism- what are your views on the role of religion in all this?

Tim and Terri: Religion has been used as a method of social control for centuries. The core message was meant to be lost. We have always been led to believe that God is something outside of ourselves. Therefore, we can always look for answers outside of ourselves where we certainly will NOT find them. Sacred Geometry is all about everything being connected and everything influencing everything else. We are not separate from the universe, we are an integral part of it and what happens in this place, on this planet, in our time is fundamentally important to everything else in our solar system and beyond. We are here to learn and to evolve. Planet Earth is a wonderful place to learn. We have dense, physical reality to deal with down here, flesh, blood and desire.
Who is to say that we cannot simultaneously exist on other levels or dimensions of reality that we are unaware of. After all, taking water as an example, it can exist as ice or steam and it changes its makeup as a result of its environment. If we say that God is not without but within, then we take responsibility for ourselves and do not hand over our power to mad, scheming, warmongers who would deny us knowledge of ourselves. We have been misled for centuries by people who know how to control the human psyche. They have it down to a fine art and we give over our power to them willingly, thinking that they know best. If that is so, then why is this planet in such a hell of a mess? Hell being the operative word because to many people that's what this life is, a living hell! If, however we approach things from a different perspective and say that WE CHOOSE TO BE HERE, then we empower ourselves. It puts a very different perspective on things.
Fundamental truths to our own existence that have been stolen from us and hidden amongst the elite. If we really knew the truth, it would blow our minds. We "follow the leaders" like sheep because we refuse to empower ourselves and make decisions about what we would do if we were in charge

Phil: I'm laughing because I've just been watching a series of documentaries called 'Century of the Self' which explores the manipulation of the masses from Freud onwards. TV only goes so far of course and you're right, the internet has opened up knowledge in a way that was inconceivable a decade ago.
I think we've explored that question pretty well! Let's move on. The different styles you employ are another interesting feature- ska/reggae; jazzy, Gong/ Hillage (Use of delayed echo guitar effects) - some interesting contrasts (There are many more mentioned in the introduction) - what are your influences and musical tastes?

Tim: This is always a difficult question to answer and becomes a larger question, the older you get. The floating line up of Census of Hallucinations has meant that there are many diverse influences being imported into the sound all of the time. We are very fortunate that we have had a lot of interesting musicians to work with. For example, we have recently been collaborating with Robin Storey, otherwise known as Rapoon who was a former member of the avant-garde band Zoviet France. Robin has also been working on remixes for Steven Wilson from The Porcupine Tree's Bass Communion project. Rob is also an accomplished painter and has exhibitions all over the world (you can find out a lot more about Robin by going to his website at: www.pretentious.net/rapoon ). Basically, Robin took samples from the first three Census Of Hallucinations albums and remixed certain tracks that we have developed by adding more to them and incorporating them into recent releases. We are also involved with Paddi (contact: www.paddi.com) who has worked with more bands than I've had hot dinners and worked for a spell as stage manager for Pink Floyd not long ago. He has worked with everybody from Santana to The James Last Orchestra. In fact he did the out front sound for Spock's Beard on a recent tour with Dream Theater. Paddi is an extremely gifted individual who excels both as musician and technician. We are also very fortunate to be working with our favourite guitarist Martin Holder who has worked with Jah Wobble and the late Jon Stevens' Away amongst many others. On our album 'The Third Eye', we also worked with Hardy, the keyboard player with the excellent Mr. Quimby's Beard. The permanent fixtures as regards core members are drummer/technician Dave Pipkin, Terri~B and myself. There are many others involved from rock/jazz/progressive/psychedelic backgrounds as well, so what I suppose I'm trying to get at is that Census of Hallucinations is like one big melting pot of ideas and it's very organic in the way that the music is produced. It's always been the ethic behind Stone Premonitions that we all work collectively, so that it's not a case of "he's the guitarist, she's the bass player etc." The confines of a band with a permanent lineup can be very restricting and there is more of a chance of personality clashes. So, what we would say as regards influences is that we all like anything that is done well and with conviction. We like music that is true to itself and isn't contrived. This can be anything from Anthony Newley to The Ozrics!

Phil: One thing that intrigues me is your choice of cover material- 'In My Chair' for example. It was a single release in 1970 marking a transition period between the more psychedelic side of the Quo and the 3 chord boogie wonder tag they acquired. The lyrics are pretty weird as well I also love the 'Dear Prudence' arrangement by the way.

Tim and Terri: We only do cover versions of songs that really mean something to us. We don't do many but as regards "In My Chair" for example, as you say, this harks back to when Status Quo were a psychedelic band. "In My Chair" did in fact mark the end of their psychedelic period and the lyrics are wonderfully tripped out. Like "Dear Prudence" or "Devil's Answer" by Atomic Rooster, these were songs that had a big impact in our youth and we perform them out of respect. All three of the above mentioned songs are quite magical to us in the atmospheres they invoke. The cover version has to fit the band and the atmosphere is very important. There are loads of songs we could do but to really do a song by somebody else justice is the real challenge. We would take it as a real compliment ourselves if anyone ever covered one of our songs and it would be interesting to hear it from their perspective.

Phil: There is a 'documentary' quality to some of your work if I can call it that.

Tim and Terri: The thoughts in the lyrics of Census of Hallucinations are effectively our thoughts on the world, so I suppose there is a kind of documentary feel in them. We comment on life as we see and experience it as we go along. Life is a long learning curve and learning is what we believe we are here for. It's all about spiritual advancement and evolution. Money is a very important part of living in 3D material reality but the exchange of ideas costs nothing. Money is very much a key part of the material world and it's an illusion. What is money anyway? It's a means to purchase material goods by giving over bits of paper that are a representation of wealth. What does it say on a twenty pound note? I promise to pay the bearer on demand. The lower echelons of society don't own any gold but there's no reason why you can't go into a bank and ask for your gold to the value of the bit of paper in your hand. Money is a concept invented by the financiers and the banks clean up. What if everyone went into the banks on the same day and withdrew all of their money? The banks would go bust! As long as we go along with the scam and the illusion they have created, then the banks are OK.
Matter is just energy at a low vibration. The higher up the spiritual ladder you go, the higher the frequency and the less dense the matter. We exist on all kinds of levels spiritually but we're only experiencing this life in dense matter and are unaware of our multidimensional selves. It has been described like the dial of a radio. You can only listen to one frequency/station at a time but just because you change the dial and listen to a different station doesn't mean that the stations you are not listening to don't exist anymore. We're all living in a dream of somebody else's creation. The collective human mind has been conditioned through millennia of thought control and manipulation. It doesn't have to be like this. This is just one dimension i.e. the third which we inhabit. Why would anyone try to break out of a prison when they didn't know they were in one?

Phil: One of my favourite C of H tracks is definitely 'Integration' (from 'Census of Hallucinations') with its great Hillage feel and it is the ability to put 3 tracks in a row on an album as different as that one 'The Moon' and 'Lizard Man' that make you pretty unique I think! Like 'Orion' later on there are some great melodies and as these two songs deal with space- 'one small step' and 'seeking Orion' could you comment on these two songs in particular?

Tim and Terri: 'Orion' and 'The Moon' are two of our most performed and favourite songs. It's all to do with the question of whether you believe that mankind was originally seeded from the stars. Are there extraterrestrials? Are they beneficent or malignant? If they are highly advanced, do they care about our welfare? Can they zip in and out of 3D reality by some device with a kind of now you see them, now you don't kind of technology? Are UFO's terrestrial and the whole UFO thing, a scam to cover the testing of covert human technology? Little green/grey genetic experiments that can withstand the trials of living in outer space, maybe? It's interesting to note that some scientists believe that human beings cannot procreate in outer space. If this is so, then what future has the human species in space travel? It always comes down to the same thing to me (Tim speaking) i.e. the way out is within each and every one of us. We're all travelling through space at God knows how many miles an hour anyway within the womb of planet Earth. Planet Earth is the spaceship. I think that the 'powers that be' are happy as long as we believe in something to occupy us and divert us away from the truth and our spiritual power and little green men will do just fine. The song "The Moon" is also to do with ecology and caring for planet Earth, our only home.

Phil: I have a link on my own web site: Alan F Alford whose book 'Gods of the New Millennium' exposits the theory that we are the hybrid offspring of an extraterrestrial race and that we may literally be about to meet our makers. While the author readily admits he got a bit carried away with some of his conclusions (a bit like Erich von Daniken in his 'Return of the Gods') it is fascinating stuff and we need to keep an open mind. Anyway, thinking about an album I haven't mentioned yet- 'Opus 2'- The opening 10 minutes or so goes very quickly- there aren't many songs I know mentioning cats- only 'Year of the Cat' 'Cool for Cats' and 'Nashville Cats'- only joking! I think you had something rather different in mind in 'Spirit of the Cat'!

Tim and Terri: : These are great questions Phil and it's good to have the opportunity to answer them. "Spirit of The Cat" is a reference to the Sphinx in Egypt. If ever there was a riddle for mankind, it's the riddle of the Sphinx. This also links up with the idea of Orion and Isis and Osiris, the Egyptian Gods. It must be obvious to everyone by now that ancient Egypt was an extremely important and well advanced society. They cared about art in a big way. They would employ artists to work on one work of art for their whole lives. Art was obviously highly valued and a very precious thing. Now, it's all plastic and ridiculous, if the truth was told. Damian Hirst for goodness sake! Piles of bricks and unmade beds selling for stupid amounts of money. Television tranquilizing the minds of humanity. BUY MORE STUFF! Act like we tell you to act, think what we tell you to think. Live this illusion. Matching carpets, matching curtains, plastic lives with plastic emotions. Is this the reason for humanity? Hate anything or anybody that's different. Kill your brother, kill your neighbour if we tell you to. DO AS WE SAY! Do not express your individuality. God is outside of you, not inside and we are God's representatives on Earth and if you don't subscribe to our point of view, you will burn in the hell fires of damnation or whatever other load of bollocks we decide to invent. BUT we believe that light is pouring into this world and the warmongering bastards of the whore of Babylon are finished. Their power is waning as more and more people are waking up to the truth of the matter which is that we all create our own reality and we are in charge of our own destiny. We are all special and all a part of creation with ultimate power over our own existence and this is what they don't want us to know. If we take charge of our own lives and stop giving our power over to them, then they are finished. Look at what is happening in Palestine right now. Why doesn't Bush, Blair and the rest of them intervene? They intervene when it suits them, when they can invent phony contrived wars to satisfy their insatiable greed. Afghanistan is about a new pipeline from the Caspian Sea, it's nothing to do with fighting terrorism. Look into George Bush's eyes and what do you see? They start wars, devastate countries and then send in their own companies to clear up the mess. They make MONEY out of the wars that they create. This is the point. They couldn't give a shit about human life. You have to try to see things through their eyes. They do not understand the concept of compassion. "The Spirit of The Cat" relates to the spirit of the Sphinx and a time when everything was very different. It talks of a time now returning and the heightening of the love vibration as we rise above all of the mediocre crap of self delusion and reconnect with our eternal selves. We will be free again soon, very soon. Free from the prison of illusion, greed and lust for power. Death is something that we have been taught to fear and acts as another control mechanism by those in charge. We don't die! Our spirit is eternal. Daevid Allen explains this very well on "From Zero to Infinity".

Phil: 'See' from 'Opus 2' is another interesting song Your views on science in particular. I don't know if you're familiar with the works of Paul Davies. Although a hard headed scientist he would say- so who lit the touch paper to cause the Big Bang then!!

Tim and Terri: "See" is a poem by Terri~B and talks from the point of view of an individual who has not been programmed. Non - programmed humans are a threat to the established order of the mind manipulators. Every human being that rises above the conditioning tool of the media and soap opera mentality is like one more drop of water in the ocean of truth. In order to change the temperature in a bath of water that is too hot, you add more cold water and eventually, the water is a suitable temperature. If it's too cold, you add more hot water. You can then step in it without severely burning yourself. It's all a question of balance. If enough of us turn off our TV sets and become deprogrammed, we can achieve wonders and make this hell into a paradise without fear. Who tells us what is fashionable, who is too fat, who is too thin, what is the right way to live our lives? Hollywood? We are not familiar with the works of Paul Davies but we like the quote!

Phil: The references to lizards and serpents intrigue me- secret codes, painted stones on 'Opus 2'

Tim and Terri: There are people in this world who believe that the entities that run this planet, the illuminati in other words are reptillian like and interact with 3D reality from the fourth dimension, moving back and forth between the two. These entities are cold blooded and emotionless. They feed on negative energy, especially that created by human misery, wars and bloodshed and they can shape shift into human form. They are satanic in nature and are obsessed with ritual. They feed from our greed and manipulate us into creating this negative energy. They use many secret codes and symbols to communicate their messages to each other that everyday humans don't understand, even though a lot of them are staring them right in the face. Human foetuses go through a reptilian phase during their development and one of the ideas is that this reptilian nature can be activated to the detriment of human well being. I don't profess to know a great deal about this side of things but to find out more, you need to check out David Icke's books, alongside the most incredible radio shows on the planet hosted by Jeff Rense

Phil: Is 'Office Block' an example of sacred geometry?

Tim and Terri: "Office Block" is a song about an imaginary place rather like a departure lounge where human souls are vetted for their suitability to travel down to earth via reincarnation. Planet Earth is the best place in the universe to learn. Planet Earth is like no other place to learn. Planet Earth is the only planet of choice. Many want to come down here but it is very difficult as many would be and are crushed in the density. In order to learn, it is necessary to forget everything you know before coming down here and the point is to remember the reason. The idea is that we all chose to be here of our own free will. We just cannot remember why we are here and must all wake up and realise! There are many things in the spiritual evolution of a soul that can be learned and experienced down here. It is only when all of the lessons have been learnt that a soul can move on up the spiritual ladder and reconnect with their higher selves. As a reference for this, try listening to "Axis:Bold As Love" by The Jimi Hendrix Experience, especially "Up From The Skies" or "Belly Button Window" from "The Cry Of Love" album.

Phil: 'Painted Stone' is another song I wanted to ask you about.

Tim:: "Painted Stone" is a story about how the name Stone Premonitions came about. Terri~B has always painted pictures on stones. One day we bought a thermometer for the kitchen and used one of the painted stones to knock in a nail to hang the thermometer from (we couldn't find the hammer at the time). Unfortunately, the nail went right through a hot water pipe (we had a premonition that this would happen). Our talented friend Steve Robson, the drummer with the amazing band Punishment of Luxury came up with the great idea of using a rivet gun and inserting a rivet into the hole in the hot water pipe to stop the leak. We went and hired a rivet gun from the nearby domestic appliance shop and the guy wouldn't take any money for it which was very kind of him. It worked!

Phil: There is a lot of anger and frustration and more than a few expletives in some of your songs, what I described as a 'toxic spill of anger' in the introduction Do you think things will ever change and what kinds of changes would you like to see?

Tim and Terri: Fear is a state of mind, incidentally the album title for the SUPERB new CD release by the American band Corporate Avenger. We've never heard music and lyrics quite like this band creates. It's a new kind of message. If only we could realise the joy of it all. We spend so much of our time thinking about what we're going to do in the future or what we did in the past that we forget to live in the moment. Life is for living. Do what thou wilt and hurt no one is a good doctrine. Things are changing very fast as the spiritual frequencies rise and our mother earth moves into our true place in the universe. She must be healed in the new vibrations of love and light. LOVE IS THE ANSWER. Hatred just keeps us here in all of this dense illusionary bollocks. We are what we think we are. Nothing comes into the world without being thought about first and thereby we create our own reality. All of our thoughts put together equal the collective human consciousness. Therefore we choose whether we live in heaven or hell. It's all right here. No one can save you except you. All of the answers are within you..."the kingdom of heaven is within". As Daevid Allen rightly points out, "World peace starts in your own backyard". Only by changing ourselves for the better can we change everything for the benefit of human kind. We have to change our ideas about time and space and concentrate on the natural cycles within us and the universe. Everything is speeding up as we move into a new era on planet earth. Think shit and shit will happen so THINK POSITIVE! Like attracts like. We at Stone Premonitions are very positive about the future and we are great believers in change. People change, they do not stay the same and more and more people are waking up to the fact that it is easy to free ourselves from this illusory prison. Life is a WONDERFUL experience and death is nothing to be afraid of. It is just a door to another realization of the infinity in YOU. Fear stops us from realizing our true potential which is why the powers that be like to keep us in a state of fear and reliance on them to protect us which is a dupe on the collective mind of humanity. Therefore, yes we sound angry as we express ourselves through the music and try to stand up and be counted for our beliefs. I love shouting and screaming away, it's great. I have a right to express my feelings and emotions as a human being. We don't expect everybody to have to agree with what we believe and they have an absolute right to disagree but the debate should be open. People should be able to express their views, whatever they may be. It's the only way that we can get to the truth and the heart of the matter.

Phil: I also wanted to ask you about environmental concerns, for example on 'Gaia Hypothesis'

Tim and Terri: 'Gaia Hypothesis' is a title suggested to us by our good friend Ian Marquis from Supanova Radio in the UK. I think that we've explained our ideas on this quite thoroughly. Gaia is the spirit of mother earth and everything therein. We have to heal ourselves and in doing so heal our planet. We must respect her as we would our own human mother. Without her, what then? We are choking her to death with our greed and pollution. We are all the 'polluticians'. We all consume. We are taught to consume and give nothing back. We rape and pillage our earth, our mother like some psychotic child, like vampires on her flesh. We're like maggots eating her away and it has to STOP!!! We have to wake up to the fact. It's us that are doing it. We elect the politicians and greed merchants, we are all responsible. It's no use blaming anybody else. We must take responsibility and decide on a true alternative or make no mistake about it, we will cease to exist on this wavelength and physical reality.

Phil: You're right we are collectively responsible but sadly not many people are interested in or insightful about politics/ political comment as you so obviously are on 'Lie Again' and 'The Selfishness of the Thatcher Years'.

Tim and Terri: Has Margaret Thatcher learnt anything? Will she feel any remorse for what she has done? "If at first you don't succeed, lie lie lie again". It's what politicians do. Where would they be if they spoke the truth? It's a living and at the top it's a very good one but do you actually believe that they believe in what they are saying? It's the 'official line' The problem is that we elect them and give over our responsibility to them. Jello Biafra says that we have to ask ourselves what we would do if we were in charge and this is an extremely important point. He also extols the idea that we should 'become the media'. The whole thing about the current underground music scene is that it is full of people who are becoming the media because they cannot rely on corporate entities to give them any support whatsoever. We need a new kind of politics for a new era, a politics of truth, compassion and reason. You know in your heart when you hear the truth and somebody actually cares. We just have to be able to distinguish between the lies and the truth. Don't get me wrong, there are a hell of a lot of good people out there, it's just that they have been fooled into believing a lie. Politicians try to convince us that we are not what we are. We have to be the sheep and they have to lead us down the wrong garden path.

Phil: I think of '5' as 'the guitar album'. Obviously Martin Holder plays a big part in this- tell us about his contribution.

Tim and Terri: You are absolutely right, '5' is indeed the guitar album. Martin Holder is the most amazing guitarist and made a huge contribution to the album. It is always a joy hearing him play and he can turn his hand to literally any style of playing. On '5', we wanted to try to get that feel of classic rock guitar stuff and in many ways, the songs are successful to this end. In other words, loads of guitar with heavy duty riffs and long solos. It was a kind of exorcism as it's something that we've wanted to do for a while as opposed to the more experimental side of Census of Hallucinations. Martin has been around as a serious guitar player since the early seventies and so his sound is authentic. He cares a lot about the amplifiers and speakers he uses and we spent a long time in the studio just setting up the sounds. We grew up listening to so many heavy rock bands alongside everything else but the important thing was to perform the music naturally and try to keep it organic and in no way contrived, as this would be anathema to Martin. He is an original and as I've said before, our favourite guitarist. He makes everything he plays look so easy and he is such a confident player and mesmerising to watch.

Phil: '5' also contains one of your loveliest songs I think- 'Father's Day'- what was the thinking behind that?

Tim and Terri: Thank you very much. Yes, we're pleased with that one. The lyric for 'Father's Day' can be viewed from the point of view of any father or son. It depends on the way that you want to interpret it. It can also relate to the idea of God i.e. "our father who aren't in heaven". I'm sorry, I'll rephrase that "our father who art in heaven". The only problem with fathers from my personal point of view from God to human is that they're never there when you need them. I'm sorry, this is a cynical point but fathers have a lot to answer for, as do sons! The song is really about the idea of male domination of everything. The idea of the dad in the sky that watches over us and if we don't obey him, he'll send us to burn in hellfire. I was forced to go to Sunday school when I was a kid and it rubbed off in a bad way I suppose. I cried when I was singing the take to that song. It's a very sad state of affairs really and I felt a bit weird bearing my soul to such a degree.

Phil: 'Stone Premonitions' seems to be a bit of a 'co-operative'. What's it like on a day to day basis?

Tim and Terri: That's exactly what Stone Premonitions is. It began its history in early 1994, centred around the Stone Studio in County Durham and was instigated by the former Neon and Punishment of Luxury Singer/Guitarist Tim Jones, vocalist Terri~ B. and keyboards player Steve Ellis. 'Stone Premonitions' is a label representing a musician's co-operative that was set up in order to seek and nurture the creative processes of innovative musicians in the North East of England. We refuse to put profitability before creativity and constantly endeavour to produce song writing and music of an extremely high standard and we are proud of the fact that our listening audience is attracted to Stone Premonitions for exactly these reasons. Every penny we make goes back into running the co-operative and we manage to make our own records from start to finish without any outside investment from major record companies.

Phil: Finally, what are your future plans, hopes and dreams?

Tim and Terri: We are always looking for new outlets for our releases and making new contacts in the vast and truly wonderful International Underground Music Network. Bollocks to the mainstream, this is where the future lies for independent music, as far as we are concerned, through the hard working magazines, radio stations and networkers who make up the movement. We consider that the current underground music scene (world wide) is the most vibrant that it has been in years! There are so many excellent publications that are working very hard indeed to promote true independent music. They offer a real alternative for musicians who are in it for the music rather than the money. These people are reliable and very responsive. Also, there are so many excellent independent underground radio stations out there these days that offer a real alternative to the mainstream aural pollution! These stations continue to play our music and they are very supportive of the Stone Premonitions project. Most of our music is created at The Stone Studio where we are based and all Stone Premonitions projects are interactive. Knowing your own limitations in a realistic way, without losing a firm, positive attitude to what you are doing is a very important lesson to learn. For example, if you really can't do a particular aspect of a job yourself, get someone in who can! In actual fact, if a few bands get together with the same philosophy...i.e. they want their music heard first and foremost, secondly that they want nothing to do with major corporations...i.e. mainstream record companies and thirdly, their prime aim in life isn't to put money before creativity, it can be a huge success, ARTISTICALLY and this is more to the point! In a nutshell, this is what Stone Premonitions set out to achieve. You can have a co-operative of bands under one banner that pool resources. You can then attempt to achieve credibility for that banner and introduce new talent through that credibility. You can start small and build as the interest grows in the whole project. The most positive aspect of doing all this is exchange. The beauty of it is that it doesn't involve money. An exchange of good, competent skills can go a long way to making your ideas successful when you have little or no budget. We basically exchange creative and technical skills and as a consequence of this, appear on each other's records. There are around 50 musicians involved with the Stone Premonitions project at the present time Stone Premonitions is an ideal and we don't hasten to use that word lightly! We created it for sure through our human interaction but now it exists in its own right and we have to uphold this ideal. It is like a banner or a flag with a great big peace sign on it. It's what we believe in and in return it's a vehicle for all of our self expression. We become more confident over the months, then years that it will outlive us because it is timeless and music exists outside time and space.